“If the news and the documents published by “L’Espresso” are authentic, and I see no reason to believe the contrary, considering that no denials have arrived from the United States, we are clearly facing an illegal action. Tapping or collecting computer data without a court authorization is considered a crime in Italy”.
It would seem that the NSA was using the embassy in Rome and the consulate in Milan as the main electronic spying offices: can the US agents invoke diplomatic immunity?
“There are various aspects of that immunity: it is very ample for the Ambassador but more limited for the consular officers. In any case it certainly does not give anyone the license to commit a crime. This is the law, the international conventions and the sentences in the Abu Omar case confirm it”.
Even President Obama justified the systematic spying of millions of telephones and computers as a necessity: checking everything and everyone would be needed to avoid attacks and guarantee the safety of the citizens.
“This justification is totally lacking any basis, and I’m saying this as a prosecutor who has always dealt with terrorism. The best Italian investigators share this opinion, not only magistrates but also those responsible for the anti-terrorism units of the police and the Carabinieri, who I consulted before my recent hearing before the Copasir Parliamentary Committee. Without a prior standard of selection, collecting millions of random data is useless. Too much data accumulated in a haphazard fashion for general categories such as telephone contacts, e-mails and all the banking transactions of millions of people are like not having any information at all. In order to find a terrorist hideout or a mafia organization, our judicial police, which is perhaps the best in the world, certainly also uses computer investigations, but starting from specific suspicious elements, places and certain moments. Having to manage a ton of information without any filters is counterproductive: it is a waste of time and strength. Then a terrorist who has already been declared as such by his own father manages to get on an American airplane…”.
Why do you have this painting in your office?
“The first time I saw it I was at the Marshals Service in Washington, the oldest federal agency that executes the sentences issued by the Supreme Court. Rockwell was inspired by the verdict that ended apartheid in Louisiana in 1960, which made an elementary school in New Orleans accept a colored little six-year-old girl, Ruby Bridges. The “marshals” escorted her to school all year long: It’s all in this painting: the law, represented by four faceless agents, because their identity has no importance; the arrogance, well-known in Italy, of those who hate the law and insult the little girl by throwing tomatoes at her and insulting her by writing “nigger” on the wall. But we can also see the pride and the courage of those who rely on the law, symbolized by the dignity shown by the little girl who walks with her head held high, ignoring the insults, wearing a white dress that remains spotless. This is the strength of the law”.
According to the ideologist of the spying services, it is an impossible law to respect.
“The Italian law offers the secret services a perfectly legal instrument to carry out all the tapping considered necessary and without the requirements needed in normal judicial investigations. This is so-called preventive tapping that can also be carried out for the remote danger of an attack. In fact, within their institutional purposes, the secret services can ask the public prosecutor of Rome to authorize that type of tapping. Nothing prevents an allied service from using this legal procedure by going through the Italian agencies or the agencies of other countries with which there is a collaboration, if there really is a danger or a suspect that can be proven”.
What would happen if instead NSA spied covertly and then informed our agents?
“This cannot be done in Italy. And the Italian services are obliged to report any news about criminal activity, even if vague, to the judicial police, which must warn the public prosecutor. This communication is mandatory and can only be delayed. Therefore if our intelligence agencies were informed of non-authorized tapping and did not report it, this would be a serious crime”.
The heads of the American agencies told the Italian Parliamentary members of the Copasir that the mass spying would have also avoided attacks in Italy.
“I would only have one question to ask them: which attacks would that be? It was said that an attack in Naples had been blocked, but in Italy the news was not confirmed. In any case we must understand why, on behalf of the battle against terrorism, some of the political leaders of allied countries were, as it would seem, tapped. Perhaps some spying agency was convinced that Chancellor Merkel was the head of the Raf? The continuous reference being made to the security of the citizens seems more like a publicity slogan used to justify a useless digital tsunami”.
France and Germany have harshly complained with the United States. Who could react in Italy?
“Well, the government for sure, especially on the basis of the investigation that the Copasir is bringing forth, as being in charge of a power-duty to politically control the activity of the services. Copasir must check what those in charge of the American agencies were trying to say when they spoke of a constant collaboration with the Italian services. This could never regard illegal tapping, and the Digital Innovators’ Summit has already made a ruling on this.”
Did the Abu Omar trial and the revelations made on the spying in Italy change the government’s attitude towards the illegal activities of the services and the abuse of the State Secrets?
“I will only say that, after the Monti government, now the Letta government has also raised the question of a conflict of attributions against the judges in the Abu Omar case who have condemned the Sismi men. We have a kidnapping and the tortures suffered by the kidnapped in the background. Even the rendition was justified in the name of the battle against terrorism, while the contrary was true: kidnapping and torturing the suspects in secret prisons is only needed to give an excuse to those involved in proselytism”.
Do you see any realistic solution to the almighty power of the services in the computer age?
“Perhaps only a European directive to protect the constitutional right to privacy, with very severe and effective fines on a political level could be a solution. In such a case the Guarantor should have a very important role as well ”.
